Good evening. Tonight, the football world was stunned by the shock news that after only seven weeks in the job, Brian Clough has been sacked as manager of Leeds United.
It's been claimed that the footballers passed a vote of no confidence in him and certainly today, the board took the shock decision that Clough must go.
We're talking not only to Brian Clough himself, but also to the man that he succeeded as manager of Britain's most successful football team, to Don Revie, the England manager, but Brian Clough first of all.
Brian, what's your reaction to being booted out in this fashion?
Oh, it's a very sad reaction.
Obviously, to be sacked as you profoundly put it, and the only way you could put it, it's a very sad one.
It's a very sad one for me personally, and I also believe a very sad one from Leeds Football Club's angle and from the Leeds city.
You see Brian, when you talk about coming to take the Leeds job and you had all these things and all these worries about stepping in my shoes and one thing and another.
Which I had. Yes, you had.
But why, why did you come from Brighton to Leeds to take it over when you'd criticised them so much and said, "We should be in the second division
"for this and we should do this and we should do that."
Why did you take the job?
Well, because I thought it was the best job in the country.
Of course it was the best job in the country.
I was taking over the league champions.
Yeah, you were taking over the league champions.
You were taking over the best bunch of players that you've ever seen...
Well, I didn't know about the players, Don.
You didn't know?
'Cause I, I didn't know them intimate like you do.
But I know you were the league champions and I was taking over the league champions.
I wanted to have a crack at the European Cup this year.
Yes. I think it was near and dear to your heart also. Yeah, yes.
Erm... I wanted to win it.
I wanted to do something you hadn't done.
- I believe there's just a fraction, Don... Well...
...a fraction. I don't know this 'cause I've not spoken to you, but I believe it's a fraction whether you took the England job or had another shot at the European Cup.
That is totally true, 'cause I was so involved with the players and everybody at Elland Road. Good lad.
Now I wanted to do that, and I want to do it better than you.
What's gonna happen now to Brian Clough?
Well, a million things are gonna happen to Brian Clough.
Well, aren't you gonna be in a very difficult situation?
'Cause after the argument with Derby, you left Brighton under a cloud, and now this with Leeds, who's gonna touch you with a barge pole, as it were?
We were all wondering who the next manager was gonna be and it turned out it was, er, Mr Clough.
I've known a few days, Trevor.
Er, and it's taken a few days to sort the problems out and for me to decide whether I wanted to come back into football.
We had one thing in common, of course, we both want success.
The committee wants success and I want success for Nottingham Forest.
Let's pause for a moment and look at some of Nottingham's early history.
Nottingham's association with Robin Hood, the lace trade, Nottingham Castle, the Major Oak, DH Lawrence, Raleigh Industries...
Nottingham is, in fact, ideally situated.
The M1 Motorway passes the city directly to the west and the East Midlands Airport is only 15 miles away from the city.
Nottingham is fortunate in having three, locally based breweries, carefully selected shops, water clock and fountains.
Nottingham Forest Football Club, which plays at the City Ground, was established in 1865 and is the third oldest football league club.
Good morning, it's 7 o'clock.
This is morning report from BBC Radio, Nottingham...
It was a mid-table, second division team.
It was my local club. My parents didn't want me to leave home, so they wanted me to get hitched up with a local club and I came down to Forest.
It was in turmoil at the time, I must admit.
We must have had about three or four managers in that period.
And we were, you know, languishing in the, what was called the second division at that time, Championship as it's known now.
And no real sign as if we're actually going to get back up again.
Clough was the man. They'd seen what he'd done down the road at Derby, you know, performed miracles, so they were just wondering whether he could repeat that at Nottingham Forest.
I heard all the way in America, I heard all the way in Indonesia that this fella talks too much.
They say he's another Muhammad Ali. There's just one Muhammad Ali.
And I want you to know, whoever you are, you're not a fighter and you don't take my job. I'm the talker, now Clough, I've had enough. Stop it.
Well are you gonna stop it?
No, I want to fight him.
We would have been in complete awe of him coming into that dressing room.
I know celebrity status is easily obtained these days, but he was, he was a major celebrity. He was on Parkinson nearly every other week.
To some he's an arrogant loudmouth who ought to be put in his place.
To other's he someone who simply speaks his mind and makes more sense than the rest of them put together.
But whatever people say about him, no one's ever yet accused him of being dull.
Ladies and gentlemen, Brian Clough.
You took 10,000 fans away from Forest when you took over at Derby.
Can you bring them back again to Forest?
Well, I would hope to get a few back.
Well, it changed overnight the moment Brian actually came to the club.
Obviously, when Clough's got the job and people look at him and say, "Well what can he do? Who's he gonna bring in?"
But, you know, Ian Bowyer, Tony Woodcock, Martin O'Neill, John Robertson, Viv Anderson.
Five players there that are gonna go on to win European Cups, that are already there.
...fighting to get it back. Bowyer!
And it's three. Remarkable goal...
They've got ability, but they're not quite sure how to bring it out in themselves.
Oh, I'll never forget the first time I ever seen him.
It was in the dressing room. It was a sort of square dressing room with, er, one door there and one door further on, on the outside, and I was sitting facing both doors.
The door burst open, he walked in, "I'm the new manager of Nottingham Forest."
It was like a whirlwind coming in.
And he looked around and just as he was about to leave, and he said, er, "I'll be putting a squad up. Is young O'Neill here?"
And I was, "Yeah, I'm here." He said, er, "You're coming with us, son."
He was just straight with people. Er, he expected you to be straight back.
I said, "I wanna play centre forward."
He said, "What are you gonna do there?"
I said, "I'm gonna score goals." He says, "Good answer, young man."
Is there any money available here at Forest for new players?
I've not gone into that, er, into that aspect of the club with the chairman.
I'm certain that, you know, if I can produce a player to the committee that they think will do Forest some good, I'm certain there'll be money available, but I haven't discussed it with them.
I must admit, we wouldn't have been too surprised to find that, er, that John O'Hare and John McGovern would be coming.
I met Brian Clough at the Post House at Sandy Acre and the negotiations over the contract lasted 10 seconds.
When he came in, Nottingham Forest, you know, I'd known him for so long, he obviously thought I had something as a player.
So it really didn't take that much thinking about.
It could have been any club, but I'm working for the man himself, so, suited me down to the ground.
A journalist from the northeast who was a friend of his rang him and said, "I hear you're looking for a left back, "do you know Frank Clark had a free?"
"Where are you playing now?" he said.
"Man City Reserves." I said. "Well you'll be better playing in my first team.
"I'll meet outside a league town football ground."
So he said, "I'll be there, be there in an hour." Put the phone down.
So, I arranged meet him at a Scotch Corner hotel.
My car broke down on the way.
So it's probably the only time I was ever late to meet Brian, but fortunately he waited, and we, er, we managed to get it sorted.
He signed me for 29,000, 'cause he wouldn't pay 30.
He said, "You should be paying me."
"To get away from Leeds United."
There has been talk of Peter Taylor leaving Brighton and joining you here at Forest. Is this pure speculation?
When Peter Taylor joined him, that's when things really took off at Forest.
Clough had missed him for about the 18 months that he'd been there.
He was back. He'd got his spark back. He was rejuvenated. He was ready to go again.
There was almost like a Renaissance with him.
He really needed Peter Taylor.
On their own, maybe good at what they do, but, you know, unbeatable when they're together.
You know, there was good cop and bad cop.
You never know which one's gonna be which one.
Peter took me to task really and, er, if it hadn't been for him I think at that stage, then I don't know if I'd ever come through it.
When I first went there, John was a journeyman midfield player going nowhere.
I thought his attitude was terrible.
I was a bit of a, erm, as Brian Clough would probably call me, "A wastrel".
I don't think I was that bad but...
You know I said I'm a sulker.
But I may well have learned that from John in the first place.
Well, he was a moaner. A real moaner.
They really saw in John's attitude, I think they frightened him really.
I took notice of it. When Pete said to me, "But we think you can play."
Turns... Oh, it's great! And a superb goal! John Robertson!
What a fantastic goal by John Robertson!
Three-two, Nottingham Forest. Seventeen minutes into the second half.
Oh, you won't see much better than that.
What is it?
I believe it's just the selection and buying of good players and the ability to manage them and to put them together etcetera, etcetera.
I think that's what football's about throughout the world.
It was a building process that only really took off when Peter Taylor got there, because he knew exactly who to sign that would improve the squad we already had.
"You know that, that fella Clough at Nottingham Forest, "he, wants you go up there." I said, "Why?
"What division are they in?"
I can remember Larry coming in.
Well, Larry's my mate still, but he was he, he was a big time Charlie lad.
He'd been at Liverpool, so he'd been a big player.
Been around the scene and this was big for us.
When I was signing I was still hesitant. He said, "Wait a minute," he said, "Have you got all your equipment in your house?
"Have you like washing machines, dryers, the lot?" I said, "As it happens, "My wife's washing machine has broken."
"Leave that to me son."
Two blokes turn up in overalls carrying a washing machine.
I thought, "Oh, good on him."
Anyway, the following morning, I went up to Nottingham training and these two lovely women, the laundry women...
"Are you that Larry Lloyd?" I went "Yeah." They said, "You've nicked our washing machine!"
I remember we played away at Bolton in the second division and we were doing okay and sat round a table with John Robertson, Larry and somebody else...
And I remember saying, "Larry so what do you think then? What do you think?"
They were hanging on to every word.
And I could remember Larry drawing on this cigar and saying...
"Not a bad little club you've got here, boys."
So me, Martin and Tony looked at each other and thought, "Mmm...
"Where the hell has he come?"
I'd have to say that Lloyd was the first major signing and, erm, and he would probably agree with that.
Things were starting to change and, er, there'd been quite a few players who have left the club now.
And then these great names were coming in so you obviously wanted to be a part of it.
It did change from being, "Not a bad little club" to being, you know, er, a good club.
Right with Roy and then we got better.
These players are improving as well. We're getting better.
We signed somebody else with a bit of quality, we get better.
He used to always have this, this mantra of three things, you work hard and if you work hard you have a chance of playing well.
If you play well then you'll enjoy it. And that was it.
It was just something that clicked and moved together and, er, yeah we must have had some sort of talent and we must have had some sort of desire to actually make it to the top.
Our last match today brings together Nottingham Forest being taken, well, forward now, by that well known combination of Brian Clough and Peter Taylor.
And it's there! A fine goal by Chapman.
We've got into a promotion place, but there's still a game left to play.
We were on the plane to Majorca again.
We were halfway to Spain, and I'd gone on this trip because Sammy Chapman didn't like flying.
And I can remember the, the captain or the pilot saying...
"We've got Nottingham Forest in and hopefully the results are gonna go well
"for them tonight and hopefully they'll be promoted."
I think Wolves had to go to Bolton and win the match.
It's got Hibbett through...
The pilot announced it, while we were in the air.
And Wolves won and we got promoted.
That means all the guys on the plane they have now been promoted to, erm, the first division.
You can imagine you know, the euphoria that went on that plane.
I mean, it wasn't turbulence. It was us jumping around on the plane I think, you know, celebrating that fact.
It doesn't matter which way you get there. Get there any way you can.
It was an absolutely fantastic time.
They sneaked in really.
But once that had happened then we prepared for the first division.
And who did he sign, but probably the best goalie in the world, Peter Shilton, a hooligan from Birmingham called Kenny Burns and a little, a little midfield nasty man called Archie Gemmill.
Gemmill... Good play by Gemmill. And again!
A brilliant individual goal by this hard little professional.
The miracle is beginning to happen.
He said, "Well, you'll be winning another title.
"You'll be winning a cup." Blah, blah, blah.
You add quality to quality that's already there, you can't fail.
And you're always welcoming players of quality into your squad.
He didn't have to sell Nottingham Forest, you know, it was him.
I was on holiday in Menorca with, er,
He says, "Well, give us a call when you get back in to England."
So, I gave him a call right away, saying we met up and he signed me, really.
As he's actually walked in the dressing room before he's been introduced to the players.
I think Ian Bowyer went, "Don't hit me, Kenny!"
Oh, that was a bad one by Burns and the sparks starts to fly.
He wasn't frightened of a player's reputation. Burnsy came with an iffy rep...
I did. But that didn't worry him.
He knew that he could get us playing how he wanted us to play.
Having got an opinion from Peter Taylor that the lad could play football, then it was up to me to do my job.
Kenny had played mainly as a striker in Birmingham and he had a terrible reputation as being a bit of a thug and a difficult player to handle.
How much does he want to be seen as a respectable guy in everybody's eyes do you think?
As much as you do, Brian.
You know, when he signed for Forest, I think we were all thinking, "Well who's gonna lose their place up front?" You know. "Who, who..."
We obviously thought, "We've signed another striker."
Jimmy Gordon, who's the trainer then, he said, "Right, this lot put the bibs on."
He says, "Middleton, Anderson, Barrett, McGovern, Lloyd, Burns, "O'Neill, Bowyer, Withe, Woodcock, Robertson."
Points the finger at Burnsy. Said, "You, "you're gonna play at the back next to the big head."
I thought by big head he meant me.
Turned out that then I believe, I know it's blowing our own trumpet here, but I believe Kenny Burns and myself were as effective as any central defensive partnership in the land and better than most.
Shilts was the best goalkeeper I ever played with and I think at the time he was probably the best goalkeeper in the world.
Went down to City Ground at Nottingham to discuss terms.
I had a couple of, what I call financial advisors, agents they are these days.
And as they opened the door, went to walk in with their briefcases etcetera, they went sprawling across the room. Papers flying everywhere and I looked down and Clough is sat on the floor tripping them up with his squash racket.
I thought, "These negotiations aren't gonna go very well."
Him and Peter were always, always thinking and plotting, "How can we gain an edge somewhere? How can we get a bit more from him.
"How can we do this?"
He was fantastic at man management.
He knew that I craved praise.
So he knew that I would strive and I would play better, obviously, to get that pat on the back.
One of Cloughy's favourites, when you're doing particularly well, it was like that sign. You know, he used to go.
Well, it all started about the third to fourth game in pre-season training.
Tackles started flying in. And the other lad going down the touchline and I went over and I've hit him. Right through the fence he went.
Brian Clough shouted, "Kenneth!"
It was only him and my mum that used to call me Kenneth.
And he just turned round, and I thought, "Oh, no," and he went...
And that's, that's annoyed big Larry to this day.
Never ever got one of those and it really says, "You're his favourite."
Can anyone love Burnsy? But there you go.
You know Cloughy loved him. "Kenneth."
Kenneth is no different from anybody else.
"Give me that sign, will you?" But he never did.
...and a shot here from Lloyd!
Players thrived at what he was doing, because it was always that competitive edge.
It was never mundane.
How would you describe the gift that you have got of getting players to perform above themselves?
Erm, gift's a very, very strong word and I don't think that I get them to perform above themselves. I think we have 15 talented players.
He was the most charismatic man I've ever met in my life.
You knew if he walked in a room, you knew he was there, even if you didn't see him, you knew somebody special had walked in there.
You know how many letters I've had in four days from MP's? Six.
You know what they want?
They want something.
They don't wanna give anything, they just want something.
You talk about managers being years ahead of their time.
There's no question that he was.
If you ask any player who's the best manager? There's only one.
He's got a charisma and a magic that nobody else in the game seems to have at the moment.
He trusted you on the pitch.
He picked the best 11, once you've crossed that white line, it was always one of his sayings, "You're fit and it's down to you. I trust you."
We're all together when we go over that white line. Totally united.
You were only ever under one pressure when Brian was the manager.
If you gave your lot then that was it.
He could live with people mis-controlling the ball.
He could live with people shooting at goal and missing the target.
He could handle all that.
He couldn't live with you not giving your lot.
You would actually die for your teammate in that 90 minutes and that's what winning teams are all about.
If there isn't the commitment, no amount of ability will guarantee the result.
But we had both in abundance.
So, for Nottingham Forest, it's back to the main task of winning the first division championship...
I can remember running out and it being so loud with Forest supporters and I kept thinking, "Wow! This, we've hit the big time here."
And then a couple of minutes later, Everton came out and it was really such an impact that you felt you had to sort of duck down, you know, with the noise.
We got out and played and the first 20 minutes, I was breathing through my...
You know, we're just up there and everybody thinks
'cause you've just came up you're gonna get turned over.
The pace was ferocious. I honestly thought this is really too much.
But then we scored, Peter Withe got a goal.
The game changed completely.
And it just seemed, everything seemed to calm down and we just took over and we played unbelievably well. Won the game three-one.
And what a feeling that was, so we're off and running away from home. We've won up at Everton.
And somebody's knocking on the dressing room door.
"Come in. Delighted to see you."
So, I was thinking, "Who's this?" And it was Bill Shankly.
The former Liverpool manager.
And he said, "Bill, I'm just giving them a rollocking, "telling them how poor they were, but I think you should do it."
"You've won your first game, but the first division's a marathon, not a sprint."
Yeah, we talk about Cloughy and Cloughy's era, there was no plan.
There's never been a plan, you know?
He'd come in before the game and say, "This is the ball, you pass it to a teammate."
"You, you head the ball, you kick the ball, and if you have time with the ball
"at your feet give it to someone who can play."
"You get the football, and you give it that little fat bastard on the wing."
"Give it to John Robertson."
"He can play."
"...you can't, so you give it him."
We reduce things perhaps to a little bit of simplicity where other managers might, you know, find them complex.
I don't know whether it's a gift or if I have a gift or anything.
It's very straightforward to me.
He was a genius as far as simplicity was concerned.
In the fact that he communicated what he wanted brilliantly.
And he spoke about the game being simple. Simplicity.
You can't play well unless you have the foot... You know, that little football that we play with.
They had it more than we did and on our pitch that's sacrilege.
"If they are going to run the show on my pitch," he said, "I'm going to fall out with you and you and you."
I says, "Boss, what are we going to do about free kicks?"
He says, "Shoot".
"Ah, right. What about indirect free kicks?"
He says, "Fucking put the ball to the side and shoot." And that was it.
We had to get changed at the City Ground and then jog down the Trent to a little bit of waste ground down by Boots.
Nowadays I don't think you could actually call it training, playing five-a-side's or playing mount through the legs.
You name it, very, very basic stuff.
You'd have a player on your back, piggy back and run through the nettles by the side of the Trent, you know, the stinging nettles.
"I want a straight path round that tree and back. No cutting corners.
"Get through the nettles and come back.
"Get over that wall, out of sight, I don't wanna see you."
Grown men scrambling up into the directors box and hiding.
And hiding behind somewhere so you couldn't see them and they're looking at each other and thinking, "What are we doing here? Yeah?"
You know, some days we'd come in like you wouldn't even train.
We'd just go for a walk along the river or, see it was they just didn't know.
The modern day footballer don't know what it's like.
Garry Birtles used to say, "I'm not training today, lads, "I'm playing squash with the gaffer, " and it was nearly every day.
What are you laughing at?
That's true, he was my squash partner. Yeah? Yeah?
He finished at 12 o'clock, we were in the wine bar at 12 o'clock, he said, "Col, do you want a drink?"
I said, "Well I'm hopefully playing this afternoon, boss."
"Yeah you are playing, but if it makes you play better, have a drink."
We all went round to the café. "Can we have 14 chip cobs."
Diets? God's truth. Our diet would have been shot dead.
We didn't over train.
He gave us as much days off as, as we did training.
And he was right. He believed in rest.
"I don't wanna see anybody in here till Thursday."
Frank's getting on, he's about I don't know 48 or something at the time.
And you know he just got out, put his tracksuit bottoms, his trainers on and he just goes for a little jog, just to loosen up.
Nothing strenuous or not too far, but something just to keep myself ticking on.
And Cloughy found out about it.
I've gone into the ground one day and he got hold of me and he went absolutely berserk.
He said, "When I say you have a rest, you have a rest.
"If I find out you've been training on your day off again," he said, "I'll fine you."
And I tried to argue with him, but lost the argument, obviously.
But you look at Brian Clough and his methods there it's, if you have a couple of days off work, legit.
You know, you come into work and you've got a bounce in your step.
Over the next two seasons, my first two seasons here, and I played 108 consecutive games. Never missed a game for two seasons.
And at the end of the second season he called me in to see him, and he said, "Well, who was right now, then?"
And I looked at him and I thought, "What's he talking about here, like?"
And that's what he was talking about from two years ago. He'd never forgotten it.
I have to say, generally speaking, the results were so good, whatever he was trying, whatever he was doing was very successful.
Now, Brian Clough said in midweek that every side had to be built from defence and a lot of your stuff had been built at the back four and the goalkeeper.
Do you subscribe to that entirely, do you?
Oh, definitely. You know, the back four you know, from Shilts through Kenny Burns, Viv Anderson, Colin Barrett, Dave Needham.
No, they're absolutely fantastic and even with the successful days at Derby, it was built on a back four, a good back four, that's not gonna give away goals.
I was at home with the wife and she who's making a Christmas cake and the phone rang and she answered the phone, and, erm, "It's Brian Clough."
"Dave, could you come over and meet me at the Italian restaurant on Trent Bridge?"
"Yes, sir, yeah course I can." Yeah, so off I went and signed for him there and then. It was, I just couldn't believe it.
I think the first half of that season was some of the best football, well, certainly, I've ever played in.
Well, whether we really, really believed we could win the league at that stage, I very much doubt it.
My first game was Manchester United away at Old Trafford.
Coming in, first game panicking like hell.
We knew that we were playing well, but this was gonna be a major test at Old Trafford.
And everybody thought that this would be our comeuppance like, because we were the upstarts.
I can remember Ian Bowyer actually, "If you wanna do it anywhere, "this is the place to do it."
It just happened, we were a good side.
Woodcock chasing... Looking so... Oh, it's so lucky and unlucky!
Came off the unlucky Brian Greenhoff.
Robertson. Well, that could be awkward, and it's well thumped in by Woodcock.
If you'd have tried to pick the man of the match out of the Nottingham Forest team you'd have struggled that day, because we were flying.
We absolutely dominated them, and I thought, "Oh, Christ, what have I come to here? This is fantastic."
Comes to meet him and it's going to be three, and it is.
Look at that, Gemmill forward, Clarke again a run in on the keeper and this time number four.
Manchester United buried in their own back yard, by a team that has the hallmark of its creator, Brian Clough.
To go there and beat them four-nil on their own patch and could have been eight.
Hold on here, we could be onto something.
Nottingham Forest have given the best display by a team that I've had the privilege of seeing this season.
You know, they're not just winning, they're hammering teams, you know?
And playing great football. And I said, "You'll win the league.
"I'll tell you ways of playing and destroying teams."
I think the way we've played this season, as I said, you know, football's a game of habits. If we keep on doing the right things then there is no way that we won't win something this season.
Ah, that's Gemmill, he really stole that.
Momentum, that's the word, you know?
The team just gained its momentum.
Kept on winning. The critics kept on saying, "It can't last.
"It won't last, they'll fall away."
Is there a feeling that even yet the season could blow up in your faces?
Media guys, journalists, were always talking about the Forest bubble and he used to remind us of it, you know? He used to say, "Is the bubble gonna burst this week?"
And it was, it was all that he needed to say, really.
There was an element of us against the media, because we thought we were a little provincial club.
We didn't quite get the rewards or the credit that, er, possibly our style of football and our results deserved, so, yeah.
Yeah, people always said that about us, you know?
That the bubble's gonna burst.
We've had that thrown at us right through our career.
You know, we've been together now 12 years.
I think that in itself is an incentive for us to do well.
We just go out to win a match and we do it to the best of our ability.
We go out to entertain the public. We go out to pack football grounds.
We go out to make you and I want to come to football matches.
We try to entertain and you never know, John, you and your profession just might recognise that we are a good side.
Well, let's have our last action now and we catch up with the first division leaders Nottingham Forest.
What's the attitude in the dressing room towards the sort of press you're getting? Do you, do you think you're now being genuinely recognised as the sort of quality side you are?
Well, I don't think so, I don't think Britain realises how good we are.
But I'm sure come the end of the season when we win it, I think people will have, people have to give us recognition then.
The team was playing so well that we actually got to the League Cup Final and I was cup tied and Chris Woods played in it.
I don't think it's ever an advantage to be playing Liverpool at all, 'cause I think they are the most difficult side to play in a cup final.
Brian Clough has held everybody up. That's...
Now what's that all about?
He's getting the Forest players to wave to the Forest crowd. That's never happened before where the manager has held up the walking on ceremony.
But that, after all, is Brian Clough.
The team that we had to beat was Liverpool.
And everybody loved Liverpool. You know.
They were the kind of yard stick that you went by.
They were the team that you wanted to emulate.
Chris Woods played in goal and if it hadn't been for him, we'd have been beaten seven-nil.
With all the other players around me it was you know a really tremendous feeling.
Liverpool had a few chances and missed and scuffed them and we didn't really have an awful lot as an attacking force that afternoon.
Maybe because we were underdogs to start with it helped us get a result or two against them.
Then of course we went to Old Trafford for the replay.
We were defending a corner and I was actually on the edge of our box.
The ball got knocked out to Tony Woodcock on the left and I started on my run from the edge of our box.
People say, "I must have gotten a taxi to get there."
But I got there.
John O'Hare went hurtling through the middle, about two yards outside the box.
Thompson trips him.
It was my only chance to get him.
It a foul, but I mean, people said, "Oh, he dived, dived."
But I never, never dived.
Great dive into the box. Penalty. And Robbo of course, as he did just stuck it away.
I had to kick him outside the box. I know it sounds bad, but any professional'd do it. I brought him down outside the box.
Obvious penalty. I think John would have stuck it in.
No, no one's doubting it, surely?
What was John O'Hare's feeling about it?
Well, he said, "Certainly inside, certainly."
Well, your cameras will catch it, surely?
Yeah, and I think they show it outside. That's how it goes, eh?
It also shows we've got the cup. That's the main thing.
And Kenny Burns takes the trophy and who better to lift it to the Forest fans on this night?
Burns and Clough a partnership that may yet have a long way in football.
And may not have seen by any means, the last of the silverware.
Probably about 20, 22 years later, I was working for Martin O'Neill at Leicester City.
I go up to Anfield to watch a game. Do a match report, and I pull up at the big car park at Stanley Park.
So, I put my window down and says, "Excuse me, John O'Hare, Leicester City."
His exact words were, "Fuck off, we don't like you here."
But where were you when he tripped you?
Ah, you know, I mean to me I thought it was just, maybe just in the box you know.
What about that one remaining point?
What's that, Brian?
Well, the one remaining point that you need to win the championship.
That I hope we'll get tomorrow.
It's been a hell of a long season. It's been a hell of a good one, but we still want that point. And we hope to get it tomorrow.
And we feel that football hopes we'll get it tomorrow.
We've got another two or three games to go I think, but we needed a point.
When we played Coventry, the game when they actually won the title, Shilton was magnificent.
You could have maybe had a thousand shots at him, you wouldn't beat him.
I said before we kicked a ball, I thought we'd qualify for Europe, no more.
And that would have been an achievement, but having signed Shilton, I said then that anything is possible.
I turned to the manager and said, "Well done, boss, we've won it."
Shook his hand and he kind of went, "Oh, yeah."
You know, almost nonchalantly as if, "Well, yeah, okay we've won it, but you know, "there's nothing to really celebrate."
When, you know, the supporters are going absolutely berserk on the terraces at Coventry, you know, 'cause we've won the league championship.
To win that over that length of time was fantastic and also the way we did it.
It got to a stage, if we didn't win at Coventry, we would have probably won it the next week, and if we didn't win it the next week, we were gonna win it the week after. We just needed the point.
There's only one manager who's won a championship with two different clubs.
You are on the verge of doing that now.
Erm, is there much left for you to do once you've done it do you think?
We played some, you know, fantastic stuff.
People say football's changed a lot. Yes, it has. But the football that we played and the speed it was played at, were, were brilliant.
If we win the championship this year, we would like to go on and do you know, English football proud in the European competition next year.
In this day and age it's like that. Whoever got, who gets promoted now go and winning it, it's, it'll never be done. It will never be done again, so it was quite unique and it was a quite unique set of players we had at the time.
I've always said I'm, you know, that's my position in the back four.
You know, just that nobody else has believed me.
You know and the boss says, "Believe me."
I think plenty of people believe you now, Kenny Burns.
We've won the League Cup, we've won the league championship.
Erm, it's a unique double for the club. I'm highly delighted for every single person concerned with the club.
We've done it how I would assume everybody likes to do their job.
Nicely, honourably and well.
Plenty of positive things for the crowd to cheer at Nottingham Forest yesterday, as Brian Clough and Peter Taylor walked out to receive the first division championship trophy before yesterday's game against Birmingham City. As Hugh Johns reports.
The football league championship comes to Nottingham Forest.
A championship side put together by those two men, Brian Clough and Peter Taylor.
A side that they both agree has played with style.
There it is, that's what it's all about.
John McGovern, skipper.
A lot of people think that one of the main reasons for Nottingham Forest's success, is the success that you've shown on the field, John Robertson.
Again, a player that seems to have been brought on by Brian Clough and Peter Taylor's influence. Yes or no?
Well played, straight to, er, John Robertson by the Ipswich defence...
And a goal!
Well, it's a beautiful shot by John Robertson.
John Robertson was like Ryan Giggs but with two good feet.
The most influential player in Europe for about, I would say maybe three and a half years, four years.
John Robertson, playing on the left for Real Madrid.
He will go down as one of the world's greatest left-sided players. Without a doubt.
I think, you know, I think Robert could have been Clough's secret son.
We've got a little fat guy that will turn him inside out.
John Robertson? Yeah.
Very talented, highly skilled, unbelievable outside left.
He'll turn him inside out.
I know he liked me, but I loved him. I thank the day he walked into the football club, 'cause I'd have never have a career without him.
The biggest thing is they gave me confidence of what, what I could do well and didn't really bother so much as to about what I couldn't do so well, you know?
They converted him into a wide left player, and encouraged him to do what he was good at.
Robbo didn't believe how good he was, I'll be honest with you.
He used to panic like hell. He used to look at the team sheet every week.
We knew he was in.
You know, we'd come in at half time and very often you know, Cloughy had to tweak it a little bit.
Things weren't going as we expected. And then someone said, "Well wait a minute, Rob... Robbo's in there." So you look... In the bathroom, in the toilet.
So you look in there and you see a plume of smoke.
Cloughy, "Ah leave him. He'll pick it up when he gets on the pitch. He'll know what to do."
And then he used to sit there having a cigarette.
Over 20 yards, John wouldn't have beaten anybody, you know?
He wouldn't have beaten my father.
No pace whatsoever. Couldn't tackle a good fish supper.
Couldn't tackle my Granny.
But, left foot, right foot. Genius.
He could always beat people without touching the ball.
When you see him, he just goes past people that are, are quick.
And he'd just leave them dead.
He was that good.
The fulcrum of the team, you'd think normally would be maybe centre midfield, maybe centre back or whatever the case may be, or centre forward.
The fulcrum of our side was outside left. It went there.
It was, it was a terrific time, just, you know, exciting times.
The people of Nottingham, I'm sure they were better at their jobs.
Players who were the biggest employer of people at that time, I'm sure they, you know, Monday mornings at Players were a lot happier than they were five or six years previously, so it affected everybody. Touched everybody.
One of the lads when I went back to Man City said, "Oh, what a town that is, " said, "Five girls to every guy."
Yeah, Nottingham was buzzing. You know, I love the city.
You know, we had a team... In those days that were, that were characters.
You know, and they'll, the lads didn't mind going out for a drink.
We were sort of the only team who got fined if we didn't go out on a Friday night for a drink. It was one of those sort of situations.
It was a great spirit and camaraderie about the players.
I know that that's always talked about. Everywhere you go, people who, they win a game or two, people say there's a great spirit.
There was a great spirit.
We weren't just winning a game or two, we were winning loads of games.
And we were winning big trophies and we were beating everybody.
The beauty about this football team was that these boys, we were a close-knit family in as much as, if somebody who is out on a birthday, we all went out on the birthday.
If somebody was wetting the baby's head, we all went out wetting the baby's head.
It certainly wasn't work. I don't think any footballer should ever say he's got to go to work, because, you know, he needs educating.
Tell him to come and see me.
We just had the time of our life, it was absolutely brilliant.
We were getting paid for it as well. How good is that?
Well, it's been a grey and misty morning in London.
Even so a crowd of 50,000 were at White Hart Lane, awaiting the arrival of the football league champions.
And here they come, Nottingham Forest, champions of England.
Unbeaten in their last 37 games. Unbeaten in their last 39 league games and with just one defeat in their last 59 games.
These men have really created records that take your breath away.
And you don't need me to tell you who's behind it all.
Here he is, Brian Clough, of course. Manager extraordinary.
And he'd be the first to tell you that the man just going out of the picture there, Peter Taylor, his right hand man, has had just as much to do with this phenomenal success as he has.
Brian Clough getting a great reception from this Tottenham crowd.
That's good to see and you have to admit that he deserves it.
The previous year, it was the second division that we had eventually, whatever you say about, almost scrambled up.
Now we'd won the league and I think we'd kind of proved ourselves in that sense.
You know, there was there, there was something there.
There was more there for the manager to at least mull over.
Lastly, I'm gonna get you to have a feel of this, Brian, and tell me what it feels like, The European Cup.
Well at first, obviously, the first thing is it feels very, very heavy.
But you know, if we can get it at the end of this coming season, it'll feel like a feather.
And I would like the, I would like our name on it.
Keep holding it, it suits you.
We were all looking forward to, er, to playing in Europe.
We had ideas of going to Rome and Madrid and Paris and Milan and...
Who do we get?
Not just an anti-climax because you've been to Liverpool a million times, but you've also drawn probably the toughest team in the competition and the reigning European champions.
Brian, coming back to where we started, because this is the big question for you this weekend.
How really are you gonna cope with Liverpool next weekend?
Because they have got the European experience.
They've got the experience of the two leg system.
Yes, they've got 14 years start on us, because I think they've been in Europe 14... 14 years on the trot and this is our first year.
Er, we're gonna cope with them as we coped with them last year.
To, you know, do our best. We can't worry too much about Liverpool.
If we're worried about Liverpool, they drive us... They'll drive us crackers.
It was quite deflating.
We were all disappointed.
The place was, er, was in a sombre mood. No getting away from it.
They were the measure of what you had to achieve.
To draw them in the first round, the holders as well.
Well, I was a bit sick to be honest with you. If I'm probably telling the truth, I thought, "Maybe we ain't gonna do this."
The whole world, well the whole of Europe thought that Liverpool would beat us.
Pundits, journalists alike thought, "Well, okay, Nottingham Forest have won the league, but now they get their comeuppance."
Can't possibly beat Liverpool over two legs. You know, this mob.
Erm, but Brian and, and Peter as usual were, were very confident and bullish about it.
So we'll concentrate on our game, putting it together.
We'll concentrate on trying to get a goal at our place, obviously.
We'll concentrate on keeping a clean sheet.
The normal things and we'll concentrate on providing good football.
What are you gonna achieve finally in this season, Brian?
You stunned us last season. You haven't had the best of starts, but...
And it's a good word as well, 'cause we did stun you.
Yeah you did.
And everybody, and the trophies are there to prove it.
Within two or three days, we've all cleared our heads. We've been told that we're equally as good, if not better.
Clough, when he called us together, he said, "Listen."
He said, "You know what they'll be saying in their dressing room? 'Not them again.'"
He said, "If we're gonna win it, "you'll have to meet Liverpool at some stage, so beat them in the first round.
"Get them out of the way."
Fortunately for us, the game came and we were awesome.
Anderson to Burns again.
Really right on top of his game tonight.
Bowyer... A little flick on!
Woodcock... And Birt... Birtles has got it!
His first ever goal for Nottingham Forest and it had to be the European Cup.
Well, what a night for Garry Birtles.
Garry was Roy of the Rovers when he joined us.
He'd gone from obscurity to headline fame literally overnight.
Everybody likes to score against Liverpool and, er, tremendous feeling.
From that moment on, he was brilliant.
We never believed that we couldn't beat them.
Even though they were the great Liverpool team.
It was just a case of holding out, we'll keep it out one-nil, one-nil, we'll grind it out one-nil.
It was Forest and they couldn't believe what was happening.
The time was running out.
And they tried to get a goal.
They'd get a corner. We cleared it off the touchline.
Phil Neal tries to pass it up the line, Colin blocks it.
I think he won it twice.
And it's gone out to Birtles.
For some reason I've gone galloping forward.
The two of them, almost in unison jump up.
"Where's he going?"
"What is that lunatic doing? Where's he going?"
Phil Thompson came sort of sliding in but didn't quite get it.
He's crossed it and Tony's just cushioned the ball for Colin Barrett.
And I just hit it sweet.
"What's he doing! Great goal."
"Oh, what a goal!"
And I remember Peter Taylor afterwards saying, "We were encouraging them to go forward in the last couple of minutes in the game."
What Colin's doing up there, I don't know.
"Colin scored that?"
And I can still remember Tony Woodcock grabbing hold of me and I told him to F-off, 'cause I was on my way. I was running round the ground.
If you ever scored a goal against Liverpool in a game like that, you realised how fast you can run.
Out of all the Liverpool games we've played over the years, I always remember Colin Barrett's goal.
I actually think that the goal that Colin scored made that second leg at Anfield not easy, but easier.
I know the manager won't like it if we get too excited you know what I mean, but you're in the dressing room for five minutes, the only talking point is, "Col, what were you doing up there?"
I never saw that goal again for about another 10 years.
It was about the time when JR got shot, JR Ewing got shot.
This is the wife. So she put it on tape and my goal was on tape.
...some confidence to do it. Not a bad looking cross... Woodcock!
It was you, Kristen.
True story. Wives, eh?
The Saturday previous to the return leg, Liverpool beat Tottenham seven-nil at Anfield.
...but it's gone to Dalglish and he turns and... Dalglish at the far post.
In it goes, and this is becoming a riot.
So that performance against Spurs doesn't frighten you?
Nothing, not that much. Right.
We should have scored seven past Spurs on the first match of the season.
What are their weaknesses?
Well, the weakness is that they couldn't score a goal against us last season.
That's not a bad one for a start, so don't ram seven goals down my throat or anybody else's.
Colin got injured in ensuing games before the second leg.
So I, I played in the second leg up there and it was a bit like the Alamo at times.
Anfield was the hardest place ever to go to.
It was incredible. It was so electric, and in those days obviously the Kop it was, it was standing. They were swaying.
Brian always told us, "Right, get out on the pitch before."
So we all went down the Kop and of course all the booing and everything, throwing oranges and everything at us.
I used to love the Liverpool nights.
A tennis ball came on the pitch and John Robertson flicked it up, volleyed it straight in the top corner of the net.
All of a sudden the mood changed and they all started cheering.
How to take the pressure off in one easy lesson.
As a team we defended really well and that starts from the front players, midfield players and of course, the back four were brilliant.
Obviously, they had a little bit more on, on our goal.
They had more attacks, more shots. But Shilts was in good form, Burnsy and I were in good form, the full backs were in good form.
We just knew that if the other team got the ball, then I should be marking him, he should be doing this.
And, and it, and it just, it was just us, it just fell into shape if you like.
Good tackle by Bowyer.
They do show you how to win the ball, these Forest midfield players.
We were compact, as soon as people come in our half, that's when we started to close them down.
And we became really expert at it.
You rolled your sleeves up.
You're digging in and you know how good they are, but you've just gotta keep going.
We're in time added on now by the French referee for stoppages and there won't be too much. There'll hardly be any!
That whistle signals the end of Liverpool's hold on the European Cup.
Nottingham Forest's organisation and flair and style over the two matches was too good, even for the European champions. It's the end of an era.
That was great credit to us, because Liverpool were, you know, a great team, had some great players, but we had that little bit more.
The Kop is silent. Silent in tribute to Forest who won a tie, which at the start of it, many people didn't think they had much chance of.
When we beat Liverpool, I remember Bob Paisley saying afterwards, he thought we could go on and win it.
And you realise, "Mmm, I think we must have a bit of respect in this in this world."
Getting into the European Cup was the hardest thing, 'cause you had to win the league, but once we got past Liverpool, I think we thought, "You never know."
If this is the best Europe's got, you know, maybe we have got a chance.
How far do you think your own side can go in the European Cup?
I think we'll go reasonably well, John. We don't know, you see.
We're babes in the wood regarding European football.
Um, what we do know is we've beaten Liverpool.
That's all we can do. We've knocked them out. We don't know who we're going to draw.
We don't like talking, you know, hypothetically.
I, personally, don't talk about things that, you know, are not there yet.
We're not going to anticipate. We're going home tonight.
We're gonna go to bed, have a couple of beers, perhaps on the coach, and we're gonna get ready for Aston Villa on Saturday.
And I'm not kidding, that's as far as it goes.
After that almost domestic confrontation with Liverpool, Nottingham Forest's first true venture into the unknown areas of the European Cup begins here, in the stadium of AEK Athens.
We looked upon them as being almost like pioneering adventures for us, you know?
There's more sort of gamesmanship, or strange form of gamesmanship with these foreign sides, though off the pitch, Brian.
Oh, yes. They, they throw everything at you, apart from literally the kitchen sink and if they could get away with that, they would do that also.
You scored four goals for the national side against Finland yesterday, Mavrus.
Can you score four goals against Peter Shilton?
It was our first experience of the hostility that you can find in Europe.
I think it was Archie Gemmill, or somebody like that, saying, it's an intimidating atmosphere, Athens.
These Greeks, they're a dangerous lot.
You know, you've gotta watch it here tonight. They could be turning up in front of the gates.
It's a good job we've got security here.
We stayed somewhere on the beach and we had little chalets, and I was in with Tony Woodcock. And I remember going back to my room early.
Ten to 15, 20 minutes later, there was a complete power cut.
And the lights go out. And I'm thinking, "Ooh."
And you imagine things then.
And before I get to the room, he could hear me coming.
I was stuck in the toilet, 'cause I was scared, in the toilet thinking, "Are they coming to get us?"
"Who's there?" You know, and I knock on the door.
"Who's there? Keep out!" You know?
Well, I thought this, 'cause everyone says they intimidate and they'd do anything to get three points. I'm thinking, "They're coming to get me."
If Brian Clough and Peter Taylor want to learn a new trick for their managerial repertoire when they come to Athens, then they, like the rest of us, will find that you can always learn from the ancient Greeks.
Their stadium was amazing, you know?
I mean, they really do get into their football over there and they do get very excited.
There was a real aggression that germinated from the terracing...
But we got a good result.
People talk about the crowd, but I've never seen a spectator actually score a goal.
You know? And that was one of my moments of glory in the away game.
Actually it's probably the only time in, in all the time I played with John Robertson that I actually ran past him.
Was it Frank Clark got forward?
I think he got a nosebleed, you know, 'cause he got that far forward.
For some reason, I gave the ball to John and thought, "I'll keep on running here, I might just surprise everyone."
I did keep on running and I got, I got right through with the ball and then got very near the goal and then kind of looked around and thought, "Help!"
He's crossed the ball for me and it's come to me, I could have put it in first time, but for some reason I didn't, I took a touch, that sidestepped the keeper, then put it in the empty net.
I think John McGovern scored the other one and he didn't score many.
A quick look at the bench to see if I was gonna get a rollocking for being that far forward, you know, but...
They were no mugs. They put us to the sword in the second half and they only got one back, but it was great to take a lead back to Nottingham.
It is a very good team...
And he plays a very good football.
Erm, there are many good players.
Puskas arrives with the AEK team.
They did a little warm up. I thought, "I'll stay and watch him a little bit."
And he's hitting shots from the edge of the box and he's just hitting every one in the top corner of the net and the goalkeepers couldn't get near them.
And I think he was trying to show off a little bit, 'cause I thought, "Well that's not really building the goalkeeper's confidence up."
Puskas, who played for Hungary at Wembley
25 years ago this month, in the match the Hungarians won six-three against England and then wrote his name all over the European Cup.
First as a player with Real Madrid, and then as the manager of the Greek club, Panathinaikos, who reached the final at Wembley in 1971.
And maybe that support is also for Brian Clough.
Well you're obviously the best player in what is a poor Birmingham team, but do you really think you're worth one million pounds?
Well, I went in to see Brian Clough and I says, er, I said, "I'm gonna get married."
He says, "Again?" I says, "Yeah." He says, "Okay. What do you think of Trevor Francis?"
I say, "He's a good player. Good player. Very good."
He said, "We're gonna sign him." I says, "Good."
I've not put in a transfer request.
No, but you want to go. You want to leave the club don't you?
Erm, well, I, I'd rather not say, Gary.
What does the prospect of playing for Brian Clough feel like to you?
Erm, it appeals to me very much. I've always, er, respected Brian.
Except when he told me to take my hands out of my pockets.
Young man, to be the best in anything, you've got to be the best among what you've seen there, it's got to be very special. Get your hands out your pockets.
He's got a tremendous record and if I get the opportunity, I'd love to speak to him.
You know I felt at the time that it's a great opportunity for me, 'cause they were the only team in the league who could actually compete with Liverpool.
You know, I've not won anything yet.
I've always hoped that things would change.
You know, the club has progressed to the quarter finals of the European Cup.
I know it's been said so many times, but I don't think any player is worth one million.
To go and pay a million pounds you know, was a real statement of intent. It was, I think it was two or three times the record fee before that, you know.
This was the biggest day in my, er, footballing career and we were on the verge of, you know, breaking the transfer record, bearing in mind that the, the current record was only 500,000.
So it was actually doubling it. I remember the chairman, er, popping his head into the door, asking Brian how the negotiations, how were they going.
"Mr Chairman, when I have something to tell you, I shall let you know. Now get out."
I put that there just in case he makes a balls of it.
Brian ran the club, er, in those days.
And it had to be on a money in equals money out basis every year, you know?
There was no, er, rich sugar daddy coming and chucking millions of pounds into the club.
It just wasn't run that way.
Now what is it that makes Trevor worth a million pounds to you?
His ability, young man.
What do you expect him to do for Forest?
Basically to score goals and be part and parcel of a good side.
You know, I was familiar with making back page headlines, but this was front page headlines.
Do you feel that having that millions pounds tag round your neck will be a burden in your playing career now?
Erm, I hope not. At the moment it certainly isn't. I'm quite excited about it.
But, erm, I realise that what I get on that pitch, I've gotta forget about it then and just get on with playing.
That's the most important factor.
There was no question that Trevor was a top class player.
So it was a real statement of intent. It gave us the players a lift.
Obviously one or two people who were looking at it players thinking, "Oh, I hope he's not gonna get my place."
But I knew he wasn't gonna play left back but...
So yeah, it gave the club a lift without doubt.
There were some big players there. The likes of Gemmill and Shilton and Woodcock and Robertson, and it was just such an honour for me, you know, to be amongst these players.
And when do you expect to play your first game for Forest?
When I pick him.
It wasn't that easy, you know, because I joined the club in the month of February, and it was obviously just over halfway through the season.
He wasn't in the team for about three or four weeks. He was on the bench.
Do you want them signing or not? No?
He's done it. No, he's done it once. It's done.
Whoever was sub, if I wanted a cup of tea, he'll get me a cup of tea.
And Cloughy walked in with Trevor behind him. He says, "What are you doing?"
"Nothing." "What's that in your hand?" I said, "Cup of tea."
"Put that back. Put that back."
So I get up, put it down. He turned to Trevor and he said, "Trevor, you get him a cup of tea.
"'Cause you've done bugger all for 45 minutes, so that's your job."
Unpredictable, er, ruthless, erm, quite brilliant at his job.
Erm, he could be quite eccentric at times, but he was bordering on being a genius.
And you notice straight away that Peter Taylor is leading out Nottingham Forest.
Where is Brian Clough? It's his right-hand man Peter Taylor, who gets the honour.
I discussed it with Peter about a week ago and I said to him, I said, you know, he needs exercise more than I do, Brian.
I play squash and he's putting weight on like... I'm only kidding.
I discussed it with him a week ago and I said, "It would do you good to get out with them this time." They wouldn't let us both go out.
Going all the way... Birtles!
If it means teaching players good habits, if it means giving them pride in themselves, if it means abiding by a few little rules and if we have discipline running right through the club, so they can come back at half time and win cup finals, then they want me every day of the week.
We felt at halftime you know, that if we could just step it up a little bit, we could win the game, and that's the way it went.
400 games was it? Or more for Newcastle and a free transfer in '75.
You could never have thought that all this was gonna happen to you at Nottingham Forest.
No, no, I was quite pleased to get fixed up in the second division at the time.
Never mind thinking about coming here, you know?
I thought Frank Clark was the best player on the field today.
His consistency was a credit to him and an example to everybody else.
People were saying, "Grasshoppers of Europe beat Real Madrid." You know, "Come on."
That's a useful ball and Mayer's first time ball was meant for Sulzer and that wasn't a bad one either and Sulzer gets in here for Grasshoppers!
And well, don't say Forest weren't warned.
Yeah, it was very, very close. I think it was only like one each, it might have been two one to us with very little time to go.
There are three minutes to go and Forest badly want the third goal.
Here's Gemmill! Archie Gemmill!
And we nicked two in the last minute to make it really four-one convincing.
Gave us a real platform to go over there.
And boy did we not need those goals? Really did. They gave us a torrid time.
I think they scored a penalty after about 20 minutes.
Sulzer versus Shilton. Yes! Grasshoppers one-nothing...
It was very, very hostile surprisingly, for me, in Zurich.
I didn't expect the Swiss to be as volatile as they were on the night.
It was hard work out playing there. It really was.
John would get the ball on the left hand side, as he was entitled to get it, because he was a genius. My job was to try and get into the back post.
I'm doing all these runs back and forward there. No one has noticed these.
I'm every bit as tired as, as they are, where you're doing the work down there, but I have to do all this, called doggies in the game. So Clough and Taylor were roaring at me in this game against Grasshoppers to get into the penalty area.
...with the cross, O'Neill! Yes!
Well, that has shocked the crowd here.
They were full of praise for me getting into the penalty area in the first place, right into the penalty box, but I think they were particularly pleased themselves that they had told me to get in there and said that if they hadn't done, I might not have done it. I would have done, 'cause that's what I did.
I know you always try and keep your feet on the ground at this club, but are you not beginning to think about the possibility of really winning the European Cup outright now?
We, we always, we always think of winning any competition we're in.
It suits us actually to be playing the Germans in one sense of the word, because I think they play nearest to English football out of anybody that we know.
Erm, how they'll compare to Liverpool, I don't quite know. I don't think they'll be as good as Liverpool, 'cause I think Liverpool are as good a side in Europe as they have proved in the last two years.
So, from your point of view, what worries would you have playing Cologne?
The build up to the game, it's England against Germany, so it's, it's gonna be, er, nip and tuck.
Cologne were the best team in Germany and favourites to win the title after Real Madrid had gone out.
You're playing in the semi-final of the European Cup and it's moments like this here that you thought, "Well I wonder how Puskas and Di Stefano and all those players all felt about matches."
It is essential you do well at home. All is not lost if you don't win by a two, or three, four goal margin, but it is essential you put up a good display and take a lead to the opposition's camp.
And the one thing we'll have to conquer, and we didn't do it against Zurich was our nerves.
I don't think on the night I've ever been so ready to play football.
Peter had gone to see Cologne play and he said, "Listen, don't fear them."
I think the English player pound for pound, temperament wise, skill wise, physical wise, I think is the best in the world, without a shadow of a doubt.
He said, "The two things I look at, "Can they head the ball? They can't head the ball.
"Are they quick? No.
"They've got no pace in the team." He said, "We'll murder them."
It's Kanaka, Muller is free over the far side.
Has he seen him? Yes he has.
I started the game as a left back and Archie Gemmill got injured, I went into midfield and Frank came on.
And we were all over the place, defensively.
Our normal game is you know, we'll hustle the opposition, we'll rush them off their feet.
But, I didn't realise how good Cologne were on the break.
They're the quickest team we've ever played, and the pitch has not bothered them one jot.
I think we almost gave a collective look over to Taylor.
As if to say, "What are you on about?"
Through ball for Glowacz.
Glowacz being chased by Needham, that's a good ball into Van Gool.
Good drive and a goal!
Van Gool, and that is a dramatic goal.
And once again Cologne break, and the long striding Herbert Neumann has a look, and finds Van Gool and he's all right.
It's one against one, Van Gool against Shilton and now it's Muller to score goal number two.
Oh, my goodness me, Forest are in real trouble.
Two-nil down, that was a shock.
You know, maybe we're not as good as we think we are.
We've chucked everything at them, but we're two-nil down.
Two break aways, and I was just in a daze really.
And there was just so much going on in the game, it was end to end.
It was gonna be a goal, it was going to be a goal.
Everything that, that you thought football could be.
I think Roger Van Gool went through, and he clipped it just wide of the post.
'Cause we would have been dead and buried at three, I'm sure.
He's in for a chance...
Oh, and he's just wide!
And he holds his head in his hands.
Again, all we need is one goal and we'll get back in the match.
And it's looking for Birtles!
And that was a beautiful goal from Garry Birtles.
We got a goal back just before half time.
...scored his first European Cup goal against Liverpool.
Two-one now to Cologne.
I scored a goal.
Good chip... Birtles knocks it down...
And Bowyer scores the goal!
Beautifully constructed goal for Ian Bowyer.
This man of all parts, man of all seasons.
John Robertson believe it, or not, scored with a header.
Here's Woodcock... McGovern...
There goes Birtles...
Turns and oh, it's great!
And a superb goal!
He never heads a goal in his life, and he's dived full length, diving header, in the bottom corner.
So you think, "Something's happening here."
What a fantastic goal by John Robertson.
Three-two Nottingham Forest. 17 minutes into the second half.
Cologne wants to make a substitution and bring on their Japanese international.
I hadn't really had a lot to do, even though I'd let two goals in.
I remember he got the ball on the edge of the box towards the end of the game and he turned and hit a shot...
...and I was expecting it to skid.
Oh! Oh, my goodness me!
What a way to come on as a substitute.
It's a bad goal to give away.
It's a terrible moment.
But from the position that we were in at two-nil, we would have taken the three-three.
Just couldn't believe it. Absolutely gutted.
I am content with this result. I think it is a good basis for the next leg.
A three-three draw, in one of the best atmospheres I think I ever remember playing at The City Ground.
Just an incredible atmosphere that night.
I honestly felt, when I've come in, that I'd played in just about the most atmospheric game imaginable.
I must admit though, it was a bit embarrassing, the next morning when I picked the newspaper up, and the headline went, "Japanese sub sinks Shilton."
Despite us, you know, managing to get back into the game and drawing the game, because they've scored three away goals, we've got to go and win, in Cologne.
We're despondent obviously, not going to Cologne with a lead, but far from out of any competition.
This is where Cloughy comes into his own.
He says, "Listen, this game is not over yet."
He says, "Don't anybody be so silly to think we're out of this.
"We'll go there and win."
I hope anybody's not stupid enough to write us off.
And that was it.
A lingering stare into the camera, just to make sure everybody's got it, you know?
I really thought he meant it.
And he kept on saying it to us.
"We'll win out there. No problem."
We always think we can win.
Genuinely, we always think we can win.
And the way they defended having got two goal start, they didn't over impress us either.
It was always, "You're better than them."
It made you feel a million dollars you know, "We are better than the opposition."
We did believe we could get a result.
We're gonna win this game. We're gonna go through to the final.
That's the only language they understand, sir.
You see, they don't like it up 'em, they do not like it up 'em.
You don't think it'll go wrong then, like it did at home.
By hell, I hope not!
I've had enough of three goals going past us to last me to the next five years, let alone the next match.
The referee, Nicola Serenier of Romania, gets the second leg under way, with Forest commencing a straightforward, if not simple task.
They need their 13th away win of the season and they have 90 minutes to achieve it.
By the time that we got to Germany, we felt that if we don't concede early, we will, we can win this game.
They had a chance really early on, with a boy called Dieter Muller.
And he missed the target. - Oh!
Again, it's a cup match and you need all the rub of the green.
We were under the cosh.
It's all about concentration at the highest level.
If you switch off, lose concentration for a second, you get torn apart.
They only needed the draw, or one-one or two-two, was still good enough for them.
I'm not sure that they knew after a while, what to do themselves and I think that we sensed that uncertainty about them during the course of the match.
It put a doubt in their minds, you know."How shall we approach this?
"We're at home, shall we go and play our usual game, "where we have to take the initiative and attack teams, "and risk conceding a goal, or shall we just sit back and keep it tight?"
And sometimes those things can play on people's minds.
I've seen it happen many, many times in two-leg football.
O'Neill! Oh, he really thumped that.
Really got hold of that Martin O'Neill and came in very sharply.
As we reach half time...
Forest in going for the victory that they must have, got to guard against leaving themselves too bare at the back.
The game swings from one end, to the other.
But they've got to gamble because they need the victory, Cologne don't.
And he hits it straight at Shilton.
We played well as a unit who had to defend when we needed to defend, but we still had that ability to get a goal.
Cologne in their fifth European semi-final.
They've never been further.
And here, we get the chance for the corner kick.
We might not be able to force that many great openings during the course of the match, this is an opportunity.
They look a little bit worried.
John Robertson took the corner and chipped it into the near post.
Garry Birtles has just got in front of the defender...
And I headed the thing into the net.
There's Bowyer! Yes, he's done it!
One-nil, that's all we need. One goal's enough for us.
I actually misheaded it, but don't tell anybody.
...played in so many places for Nottingham Forest.
You can sense that victory.
Holding on to the last 20 minutes, erm, was something that I felt we were as strong as any side in Europe to do.
The referee looking at his watch, and Nottingham Forest are in the European Cup Final.
Having beaten Liverpool, they've carried on from there to keep the English flag in the final, for the third year running.
That one-nil win in Cologne to me, was as important as any game we played in Europe.
It's what it meant, you know, every round was a new adventure.
Every round it was the furthest, obviously, that the club had ever been.
...by Ian Bowyer in the 64th minute of the match.
It was unreal. It was unreal. It was... Everybody was living in a dream.
Two or three seasons before, we were in the second division.
Mid-table, second division team.
It's, you know, it's just unheard of. It really is fairy-tale stuff.
He's done it!
After we played in Nottingham, not many people thought we were going to do it, but I did.
Deep down you were still sure?
Well I said to you after the match, that anybody who thought we were out of this competition were stupid.
I hope he doesn't mean us!
I thought to myself, "Well that's it, I'm playing in a cup final."
I always remembered the European Cup Final in 1960.
Real Madrid versus, er, Eintract Frankfurt.
Dominguez, Marquitos, Pachin, Vidal, Santamaria, Zarraga, Canario, Del Sol, Di Stéfano, Puskas, Gento.
And Puskas scoring four.
I thought European Cups were for him, and people like him.
I'm from Glasgow and I played in the streets and never ever in my lifetime did I ever think I'd get to a European Cup Final.
God, you think you could be European champions.
It's something you dream about.
We were favourites, you know.
Going into it, the pressure was on us and, you know, it was gonna be a real test.
It's difficult to remember your actual feelings, because you're kind of thinking about, okay, we're going to Munich for the European Cup Final.
First thing I wanna make sure is that I'm in the side.
Am I gonna be playing?
Because there's always competition for places.
I think it was something like our 70th game, or something, of the season.
And we only had a squad of 15 or 16, you know, erm...
All this resting players and picking a totally different team for one game after the other, that was... That never happened in those days.
This rotation business that we have, erm... It wasn't for us.
You became massively disappointed if you were left out for a minute.
You became every bit as disappointed, if you were ever taken off in a game as well too, you know.
You've gotta play in finals.
If you're not playing in it, then no point in celebrating.
All right, you're happy for everybody, but if you're not actually playing in it, then you're not part of it.
We knew Trevor was gonna play.
That was the first game in Europe that he was eligible for.
There was no doubt that he was gonna play.
I've got something to thank UEFA for, because the rules permitted anyone that signed when I signed, during the season, if the team progressed to the final, they could play in the final.
Myself, Martin O'Neill and Archie, Archie Gemmill, had all had niggling injuries.
Nothing serious, but niggling injuries.
I got injured in the first leg of the semi-final, and he said to me, "If you get yourself fit son, you'll play in the final. If you're not..."
I got myself fit.
The three of us were training and we were all looking at each other because we all knew we had a chance of playing.
I could play left back, and Ian Bowyer would be in midfield, and Trevor would be wide on the right, and that would be the team.
I never knew that I was gonna play in that final, up until the day of the game.
Clough actually walked past me, and quietly said to me, "I was gonna have a game of tennis with you today, "but you're playing tomorrow."
Martin could look at the team and think well, "Trevor's gonna play, so I won't be there.
"Well I could play in central midfield and Ian Bowyer could play at left back."
And Archie was thinking the same, "Well I can play in midfield and Ian Bowyer can play left back."
And fortunately, he had picked me.
Both players have told the manager they're 100% fit.
He says, "Well, that's great news, because you're both on the bench."
When he announced the team and I wasn't in it, there were very harsh words said by both.
He went with Frank, 'cause Frank was closer to fitness.
Archie and Martin were devastated, obviously.
Archie so bad that he left the club, you know.
He didn't play another game for Forest.
He got rid of me the following season, to Birmingham.
I would have been devastated.
I mean, I was really sorry for the two lads 'cause you know, I like them both, but you know, that's life really.
I was very fortunate.
You know, to have that opportunity of making my debut in Europe, in a European competition, in the final.
You have to remember, again, I came in '73 where Forest's average attendance would be something, only like 12,000 or 13,000, and there were 20,000 people who'd made the journey to Munich.
So many tales about people getting to the final.
My own brother, you know, he worked for Rolls Royce.
He jumped a cargo plane in Bristol.
I've been surprised, you know, in years gone by just at how many football supporters, not necessarily Nottingham Forest supporters, who actually came to support Nottingham Forest.
People hitching, people cycling, people going to these European matches.
And I think the city grew up with the team.
The weather was fabulous.
I'm sure there were literally hundreds of Nottingham people that slept in the grounds of the Olympic Stadium in Munich.
As we look round the stadium now, we can see that they're outnumbering the supporters of Malmo.
Something like two to one.
They are very conscious, as I said, that they carry the torch, and they intend to be the third English side to win this European Cup.
And that will be a record.
We're all sat about, waiting for the last one to come down.
And that last one was Garry Birtles.
Garry comes down and he's not shaving, he's got a couple of days growth, or whatever, again.
And Brian Clough said to him...
"What's that on your face?" I said, "What do you mean?"
He said, "Round your chin."
"When I sweat and I've had a shave, you know, I get really sore, "and it irritates me and it distracts me."
"Get upstairs, and get it shaved off now!"
"Five minutes, otherwise you're not playing."
He was back within five minutes.
He's got a piece of paper here, piece of paper there, piece of paper there.
It was lucky he hadn't cut his throat really.
I think that was done purposely.
He can see how nervous you are.
Said, "Right I've gotta take him out of the situation he's in at the moment.
"Just take his mind off it."
Again, great man management.
We talked, I was gonna say very little.
We talked, in fact, not at all about the opposition.
What an atmosphere. What a time.
You know, the pitch was magnificent. Everything was magnificent.
It's called the Foehn.
And it's a hot wind that comes down from the mountains that changes the atmosphere a little bit and stuff like that.
And it was a really sticky night.
And I just felt that, you know, I had to justify my selection, by playing at an extra level.
...with Nottingham Forest about to get the 24th European Cup Final underway.
Attacking the goal to the right and lining up with two forwards, although Robertson was out on the far side.
The land of the giants they were. All over six foot, managed by an Englishman.
Very well organised. Really difficult to break down.
I think they had one half chance when, on a rare attack, Kenny Burns, who was magnificent, made a rare error when he misheaded a header back to me, and one of their players got in between us.
Burns... Oh he's given it away to Kinnvall!
And rescued by Shilton.
Kenny Burns definitely in two minds then.
Woodcock again, full of industry.
That's McGovern's shot!
The most cleanly hit shot of the night.
Well, I remember the ball being played out wide to John Robertson.
And I was probably a good 40 yards you know, from goal.
I felt as if that was the first time in the half, or up until that point, where I got a ball from longer than five, 10 yards away.
And it nearly went out of play. I nearly never kept it in.
Malmo had doubled up on him, so they put two players on him.
The two players were very close together.
Well, this is my chance, I'll have a go here.
If he goes past the full back, which, there was a good chance he will do, and delivers a ball and I'm not there, I'm gonna get another, you know, dressing down from Brian Clough, which, you don't need too many of them.
Got there and again, not looking, or picking anything, just trying to clip it in there.
And I was gonna go for it.
You can see me on the picture, sort of hang back a little bit.
'Cause if I'd have gone for it, I'd have missed it, because it was too much pace, I'd have put it wide.
The million pounds is forgotten immediately.
Because record breaking fee...
Scored a goal in the European Cup Final.
The best moment in my footballing career, by far.
It was just the most magical feeling, you know?
To see that ball hit the back of the net.
Francis, another good run.
Comes from behind Birtles and here's Robertson!
And he hits the post!
Fifteen seconds now, we make it on the watch, to win it by the only goal.
Not seen too much of this sort of thing from Anderson, just one to remember in the first half.
But it doesn't matter any more, Nottingham Forest have done it!
They don't mind about the score.
They're only concerned about the fact, that the European Cup has come to Nottingham Forest.
As John McGovern, who came off a park pitch in Hartlepool to follow Brian Clough to all his clubs, except one.
Coming up to receive the trophy that has many famous names on it, from Real Madrid forward.
Well my dad died when I was 11. He never saw me play football.
When I received the cup, people said I wasn't smiling.
I was kind of smiling but wasn't really over joyous.
That was the first thing that came into my head, I wish my dad was here...
The trophy at the moment, dwarfing John McGovern.
Larry Lloyd, who left Liverpool rather hastily perhaps, was in the wilderness for some time, smiles as John McGovern holds the European Cup aloft.
And the aims of Brian Clough and Peter Taylor achieved, but I'm sure they're not gonna rest on their laurels.
That's one of their great secrets, they don't do anything of that nature.
They will be planning for the future now, to hold onto it.
John Robertson has been turned from an also stroll, into an international player by Clough and Taylor.
Trevor Francis just going through.
Francis, who's gone a very, very long way tonight to justify the money paid for him.
What's it like playing under Clough and Taylor?
They did promise you that they'd give you trophies.
What can I say?
You know, I've been here three and a half months, and it's worked out perfectly.
Peter Taylor, you and Brian Clough have won so many things, but how does last night rate, the European Cup?
Well first of all, Gary, we've accomplished what we came for.
We're bringing the cup back, number one.
It sunk in as soon as we got off the plane really at East Midlands Airport, you know?
The crowd were fantastic.
John, you've won so many trophies under Brian Clough and Peter Taylor, what's this one like compared with all the others?
A little bit heavier.
Obviously very nice to win.
But how do you cope with all this success?
I mean, do you just take it in your stride?
Because, I think most people are staggered at the success that Nottingham Forest have had in such a short time.
Well that's due to the management, you know?
We've obviously got good management and we've got good players.
We work hard at our jobs and we get the results.
I'd spent, sort of, 11, 12 years in the lower divisions, but when I got to do all this, I was really mature.
I could take it all in and enjoy it.
Some of the younger kids, I don't think actually knew what was going on.
You know, it was just happening to them.
We all met at Home Pierrepoint, the water sports centre.
Some four miles from the city centre.
So we've gone about a mile and a half from Home Pierrepoint, we hadn't seen a soul.
We're coming into West Bridgford and of course there's no one about.
Nobody around, this is gonna be embarrassing.
Robbo and Larry actually got off the bus and jogged down the road to a bus stop.
They were the first two that actually waved to the bus.
Hello? There's people, there's people!
There's bloody people!
We went all over the place and we saw people that you'd never seen for years and years, coming out to celebrate.
It was just a fantastic time.
Well it's amazing how much football means to people's lives, at times, you know?
Women, babies, babies with strips on, the flags are going.
That's when it you know, I realised what this means to the people.
It brought tears to my eyes.
I had the most emotional time I've ever had in football.
Larry Lloyd, what do you think of this reception?
Unbelievable. I didn't think there were this many people in Nottingham.
Are you enjoying yourself?
Absolutely unbelievable, it's, you know, it's difficult to describe, you know?
These people are tremendous. Over you know... Beautiful, beautiful.
Well, that's the moment where the significance of what you've achieved really hits home.
You know, so many people.
Euphoria, everybody was just overtaken.
You know, we'd put Nottingham on the map.
It's my town, it's my city, and I want to be part of it.
I can't put any words. You know? It was just, just brilliant.
Brilliant. I can't put it any plainer than that.
You know, you're very... What's the word, very humble.
Hey, I like being a hero, all right?
People waving out to me, when I'm walking around.
I like people coming up to me, when I'm having a pint.
"All right, Larry, can I buy you a pint?" "Well, yeah, yeah you can if you want."
I didn't mind that at all.
It was a great time, and I would like to think all the supporters had the time of their life as well.
I think they went with us.
They were on that journey with us, make no mistake.
You know, for a team to get promotion into what is now the Premier League, the old first division, and then end up doing what we did, two European Cups.
It'll never happen again.
That goes down as possibly one of the greatest achievements, I would say in world football.
It was a fantastic time, and obviously we're talking about it now 35 years on, it's a great achievement and I hold the medals very dear to my heart.
They were brilliant together.
Besides a massive knowledge of the game they were great company, and they could make you laugh. They were brilliant people.
There was a change when that man stepped into Nottingham.
And it was almost like getting on a train and just not getting off.
You can talk and talk and talk and talk about your profession, but you have to go out and do it.
You know, there's no point in just talking about it, and trying to convince people you're right.
You have to give them the example and then talk about it.
And we feel we should have a voice in running our industry, and I mean ours.
I don't mean mine, I mean ours. 'Cause football belongs to everybody.
Were you strong in a defensive wall, Martin?
I can imagine you in the wall with your glasses on, sort of flinching a little bit, like Benzema did, or were you... Did you stand strong?
Well, that's very nice of you to say this, here.
I actually didn't wear glasses when I was...
No, I did not...
So, what you're seeing now is an older gentleman.
But, I did actually play the game at one time.
Yes. Fabio wasn't terribly sure that I did...
You know, I had to remind him that despite the fact, that there's two World Cup winners here, actually when it comes to the Champions League...
Yeah. Used to be called the European Cup, I've won two of them.
I'd just like to know how many you two have won?